Registration Date: March 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 1365
I think that I understand u...
... and i have to told u that u are wrong.
SA9 will be dead because TOW anyway, and there is no difference in time of firing missiles between full hp SA9 and even 1 HP SA9.
Damage doesn't have influence at 2nd missile start time etc also.
__________________ - Never argue with an Idiot- He would lead you to his level ,and then, beat with experience -
- Bravery doesn't meant that You are not afraid. It means that You go there anyway -
Registration Date: June 2005
Location: Russia, Rostov-on-Don
Posts: 431
Zitat:Originally posted by HaryPL I think that I understand u...
... and i have to told u that u are wrong.
SA9 will be dead because TOW anyway, and there is no difference in time of firing missiles between full hp SA9 and even 1 HP SA9.
Damage doesn't have influence at 2nd missile start time etc also.
Nope, u misunderstood me.
I`m talking that in this way(incresed 20mm auto-cannon rnage) sa-9 will have less chanse to shot missles and this way wrong for me.
__________________ Life is still always be like a teacher, it always teach u and do u more and more stronger for difficulties .....so when u broken ich difficulties u may to "drinklife" & take pleasure of life
......thinking about it
Post last edited by maximka123 on 15.06.2009, 23:42.
15.06.2009, 23:41
HaryPL
CWC Beta Tester
Registration Date: March 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 1365
I'm NOT wrong.
Cannon can't kill SA9 before it will fire both missiles.
__________________ - Never argue with an Idiot- He would lead you to his level ,and then, beat with experience -
- Bravery doesn't meant that You are not afraid. It means that You go there anyway -
Sry for my bad grammar
15.06.2009, 23:47
Robok
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Registration Date: June 2007
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Everyone: Take a chill pill.
maximka123: What you are saying is:
An AH-1F Cobra will be able to slow down the SA-9 from firing so that the SA-9 will have less of a chance to survive
This is wrong, a unit does not slow down (i.e. start smoking) unless its health is below 25% if I recall correctly, so no, damage from a couple of cannon shots before a TOW missile will not slow down the SA-9.
Registration Date: June 2005
Location: Russia, Rostov-on-Don
Posts: 431
Zitat:Originally posted by Robok Everyone: Take a chill pill.
maximka123: What you are saying is:
An AH-1F Cobra will be able to slow down the SA-9 from firing so that the SA-9 will have less of a chance to survive
This is wrong, a unit does not slow down (i.e. start smoking) unless its health is below 25% if I recall correctly, so no, damage from a couple of cannon shots before a TOW missile will not slow down the SA-9.
If this like u say it`s good, but anyway if AH-1 auto-cannon range will increase than need return camonetting to sa-9.
__________________ Life is still always be like a teacher, it always teach u and do u more and more stronger for difficulties .....so when u broken ich difficulties u may to "drinklife" & take pleasure of life
......thinking about it
16.06.2009, 00:49
HaryPL
CWC Beta Tester
Registration Date: March 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 1365
xD
And talk about it here xD
______
Max, once again:
You do not need camonet for SA9, nor any changes to it because better 20mm cannon for AH-1 has 0 [ zero, null, ] influence at duel 1vs1 Ah1 : SA9.
Nothings change in that matter, nothing need to be concerned or changed
__________________ - Never argue with an Idiot- He would lead you to his level ,and then, beat with experience -
- Bravery doesn't meant that You are not afraid. It means that You go there anyway -
Sry for my bad grammar
Post last edited by HaryPL on 16.06.2009, 01:05.
16.06.2009, 01:01
Robok
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Registration Date: June 2007
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Zitat:Originally posted by maximka123 If this like u say it`s good, but anyway if AH-1 auto-cannon range will increase than need return camonetting to sa-9.
There's no point in doing so, the reason the auto-cannon's range should be increased is because AH-1F Cobras tend to get themselves killed by getting close to the tanks that proceed to pop them full of lead with their AA machineguns, so increasing the gun range is supposed to allow them to be safely engage targets from a distance without too much micromanagement.
Registration Date: June 2005
Location: Russia, Rostov-on-Don
Posts: 431
Zitat:Originally posted by HaryPL xD
______
Max, once again:
You do not need camonet for SA9, nor any changes to it because better 20mm cannon for AH-1 has 0 [ zero, null, ] influence at duel 1vs1 Ah1 : SA9.
Nothings change in that matter, nothing need to be concerned or changed
Hary, i repeat:
U wanna increase range of 20mm auto-cannon, i`m wanna return camonet!!!
Zitat:Originally posted by Robok
Zitat:Originally posted by maximka123 If this like u say it`s good, but anyway if AH-1 auto-cannon range will increase than need return camonetting to sa-9.
There's no point in doing so, the reason the auto-cannon's range should be increased is because AH-1F Cobras tend to get themselves killed by getting close to the tanks that proceed to pop them full of lead with their AA machineguns, so increasing the gun range is supposed to allow them to be safely engage targets from a distance without too much micromanagement.
Assuming this change will do this of course.
I repeat Robok about this one: U just need control your`s Cobra when it attack tanks, and if u will do this u will didn`t have trouble with Ah-1 cobra>> shot by tow from cobra than attack by 20mm gun and when enemy tanks are closer to u cobra just moved far away u cobra from tanks and all ok! It`s really worked!
In this case it`s not needed to increase range of auto-cannon.
__________________ Life is still always be like a teacher, it always teach u and do u more and more stronger for difficulties .....so when u broken ich difficulties u may to "drinklife" & take pleasure of life
......thinking about it
Post last edited by maximka123 on 16.06.2009, 13:02.
16.06.2009, 12:58
[R]
1337 haXX0r
Registration Date: January 2006
Location: Balchik,Bulgaria
Posts: 287
Actually, it does have an influence on Cobra vs Sa9 battles.If the Cobra's out of missiles or the first missile misses the Sa9, it will engage with the cannon.(not that I think it will kill it before the Sa9 fires)
Registration Date: March 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 1365
What's a pitty that tanks do not need so many micro...
Maneuvering of Cobra is somehow risky at all, because air units in SAGE do not always do what u except from them...
Somehow they flies backward, sometimes starts to fly forward to do U turn, sometimes even turn about 90 degrees and then starts to fly O.o
As for me , more expensive unit designed to SINGLE task - destroying enemy tanks - should survive 1vs1 duel vs. tank in good [ not full HP, but also not 1-10 hp left only ] condition without any micromanagement.
As fe. AA units do not require micro to kill airplanes, or tanks to kill APC's etc.
______________________
@R
Even if it will start to engage SA9 only with cannon it won't kill it before getting killed by AA salvo.
Secondly, who the hell will attack SA9 with Cobra, additionaly even without ATGMs reloaded O.o
__________________ - Never argue with an Idiot- He would lead you to his level ,and then, beat with experience -
- Bravery doesn't meant that You are not afraid. It means that You go there anyway -
Sry for my bad grammar
16.06.2009, 14:53
WaSteD
Banned: 1x 1337 haXX0r
Registration Date: May 2005
Location: Romania - Bucharest
Posts: 311
So hary what changes do you want exactly?
I think that the situation if changed can only go in giving an advantage to either the Cobra or the Sa9.
When i build an 800$ Sa9 i expect it to be able to kill helicopters.
You need to use the Cobra as support for your atacking force not send it blindly head on cause it's bound to get in some trouble.
Already it can kill a Shilka and survive and if it can kill the Sa9 too and survive it would become overpowered.
Btw the thing with the micromanagement of tanks isn't true. You need to change quickly from Sabot to Heat when encountering different types of enemies and taking out AT vehicles and AT soldiers with them is a hard days micro to back up and try to keep them mobile to evade the AT rockets.
And btw the cobra at rank 2 destroys USSR armour (no AA mg) with impunity. And IMO that's the only balance that you can do: US vs USSR, because if you do US vs US you will screw up the balance with the faction-counter faction.
__________________ " Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory, in the attack! "
Sun Tzu - The Art of War
Post last edited by WaSteD on 17.06.2009, 10:30.
17.06.2009, 01:45
HaryPL
CWC Beta Tester
Registration Date: March 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 1365
I do not suggest here anything at all, just agreeing with Robok...
And still wonder how a bit longer range of 20mm chain gun can endanger SA9 lol which kill Cobra always when it's in range... What's change here in ability of SA9 to kill choppers? IF AH1 will be without rocket, it will be only lightly damaged, if AH1 has rockets it will be killed anyway. And AH1 also, in each varriant.
Situation 'for u' is better anyway. Converting to my 'point of view':
When I build Humvee TOW [$800] I expect it to be able to kill tanks -.- .
It's WAY LESS efficient in that task than SA9 vs Choppers and Planes but I do not asking to change it. It shouldn't be immune to it's favourite targets and shouldn't make an area where it is positioned immune [ not able to enter without heavy looses ] to enemy tanks etc.
But it seems that u want to get that stuff with SA9 >.> For me u are going to ask for unit that won't be just very good vs particular enemy units, but totally superior and partially immune. Not to mention cost-damage relations.
SA9 is hardly fine as it is now. Still one-shooting of any helicopters make me ill [ cuz effectivity of TOWs vs more advanced tanks is not the same, but smaller] but let if be for sake of whatever; even if cost-unit relation is worse than on ground.
AH1 chain gun upgrade connect only with tanks AA mg's. Duel SA9 vs AH1 is NOT touched by that change.
__________________ - Never argue with an Idiot- He would lead you to his level ,and then, beat with experience -
- Bravery doesn't meant that You are not afraid. It means that You go there anyway -
Sry for my bad grammar
17.06.2009, 11:03
Robok
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Registration Date: June 2007
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Posts: 1615
Zitat:Originally posted by WaSteD So hary what changes do you want exactly?
I think that the situation if changed can only go in giving an advantage to either the Cobra or the Sa9.
When i build an 800$ Sa9 i expect it to be able to kill helicopters.
You need to use the Cobra as support for your atacking force not send it blindly head on cause it's bound to get in some trouble.
Already it can kill a Shilka and survive and if it can kill the Sa9 too and survive it would become overpowered.
Btw the thing with the micromanagement of tanks isn't true. You need to change quickly from Sabot to Heat when encountering different types of enemies and taking out AT vehicles and AT soldiers with them is a hard days micro to back up and try to keep them mobile to evade the AT rockets.
And btw the cobra at rank 2 destroys USSR armour (no AA mg) with impunity. And IMO that's the only balance that you can do: US vs USSR, because if you do US vs US you will screw up the balance with the faction-counter faction.
It's a fact that AH-1F Cobras are killers as they are, no one is arguing that.
But the situation we're referring to is when it gets in range for tanks to use their AA machineguns at them.
The suggestion of increasing their range slightly is simple but affects something else: They will less likely come in range of AA machineguns.
That's it, they won't be better than they are versus SA-9s or anything, they'll just put themselves in danger less often.
Registration Date: May 2008
Location: Medellin, Colombia
Posts: 44
I dont think that is the solution, for such a multipurpose unit like the cobra, you should expect to make micro management if you want the cobra to survive, of course if you send a cobra without micromanagement it will surely be destroyed but if you have time to see the cobra fly against tanks and be destroyed, Why you wouldnt have time to micro manage? its as easy as it sounds, If you dont like to micro manage, then let the cobra be destroyed, If you dont want the cobra to be destroyed, then micro manage, to win you have to make sacrifices.
__________________ "Every dead body that is not exterminated gets up and kills, those who he kills get up and kill"-Gorillaz. "Hajimari wa isumo sou, gunjou na sora no shita, chikai wo tatete ima bokuwa aruki dasu"-Black Cat.
20.06.2009, 19:02
HaryPL
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Registration Date: March 2008
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Posts: 1365
There is a point in what u are saying, but it's totally unfair in matter of USA and USSR tactic.
Tanks USSR = Choppers in USA
The things that USSR is doing by using tanks should be done in USA with use of choppers.
I do not want mirror-nations, but mirror-balance.
If USSR can send alone tank vs USA medium vehicles etc and it will survive that encounter without micromanagement [ T64, T80s vs Pattons, IFVs, APCs, Infantry ] I expect that I also can just send my equivalent of that T64 or T80 and it will survive encounter without it's primary targets. Without any additional actions and micro, as USSR do not need them too.
Especially that my units are a lot more fragile to counter-units and also a lot more costly both with fuel and credits!
Less costly unit, less fragile against counterparts, able to use in more ways = even less micro?
When more costly, more fragile, requiring one, in fact, specific environment to be fully usable = even more disadvantages as require additional micro?
That's what hurts me the most... OFC, i achieve spectacular things with my beloved air etc stuff but the way I achieve them, work i need to put into it, is a no-way balanced to effort which is required to achieve similar effect with tanks and rest of 'ground company'.
__________________ - Never argue with an Idiot- He would lead you to his level ,and then, beat with experience -
- Bravery doesn't meant that You are not afraid. It means that You go there anyway -
Sry for my bad grammar
20.06.2009, 19:53
Robok
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Registration Date: June 2007
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Posts: 1615
Zitat:Originally posted by JGD714 I dont think that is the solution, for such a multipurpose unit like the cobra, you should expect to make micro management if you want the cobra to survive, of course if you send a cobra without micromanagement it will surely be destroyed but if you have time to see the cobra fly against tanks and be destroyed, Why you wouldnt have time to micro manage? its as easy as it sounds, If you dont like to micro manage, then let the cobra be destroyed, If you dont want the cobra to be destroyed, then micro manage, to win you have to make sacrifices.
Like I said, it's impossible to micromanage every single thing on the battlefield at the same time, I'm not suggesting that we improve the AH-1F Cobra significantly so it becomes able to handle itself, no that would be just wrong.
I'm suggesting that its gun range is increased, because quite simply then it wouldn't get itself killed as often (even when you're micromanaging, having it reverse direction while it's going to the tanks takes time, which it will probably be dead by the time you retreat).
HaryPL: That argument is invalid, trust me tanks battles require much more micromanagement than air sorties.
Registration Date: May 2008
Location: Medellin, Colombia
Posts: 44
I disagree a little, as I dont think Cobra needs any upgrade, because, micromanaging correctly can make it survive long time, as I have said before, I can destroy 10 T-80 with any anti-tank chopper if the tanks arent micromanaged and im micromanaging the chopper.
__________________ "Every dead body that is not exterminated gets up and kills, those who he kills get up and kill"-Gorillaz. "Hajimari wa isumo sou, gunjou na sora no shita, chikai wo tatete ima bokuwa aruki dasu"-Black Cat.
15.06.2009, 23:22
